In testimony played Thursday (April 14th) during Johnny Depp’s defamation trial against Amber Heard, their former marriage counselor said the pair engaged in “mutual abuse” over the course of their marriage.

According to an account of the February 21st deposition published by People, when asked if there was “violence from Mr. Depp toward Amber,” Dr. Laurel Anderson replied, “Yes, you're right. He had been well controlled, I think, for almost, I don't know, 20, 30 years. Both were victims of abuse in their homes, but I thought he had been well controlled for decades. And then with Ms. Heard he was triggered, and they engaged in what I saw as mutual abuse.”

Anderson also said she observed “multiple” small bruises on Heard's face at an in-person meeting.